Episode Transcript
[00:00:04] Welcome to Transform and Lead. I'm Bron Stephens, ex CEO turned executive coach, who is all about women, uplifting women. I know what it's like to question whether your way of leading is enough. You've worked hard, you're ambitious, and you want to do big things without having to fit into someone else's mold. This podcast is here to give you practical, powerful ways to own your ambition, femininity and power so that you can lead with confidence, your way.
[00:00:31] Hi there and welcome to Transform and Lead. I'm Bron Stephens, ex CEO turned executive coach, and today we're talking about a topic that comes up constantly in my coaching sessions. My own life, and probably yours too, and that's saying no. Now, before you think this is going to be another one of those power suit mic drop episodes where I say no is a complete sentence. I want to be honest with you, that phrase might make a really great meme, but in real life, especially in leadership, it really works like that. Sure, if someone's grabbing your ass in a pub, scream no. And that is a complete sentence. But if you're in the workplace, you really need to be thinking about how you show up and how it's perceived, because there is a penalty for being a woman. And I also just think no is not a very civil way to address this issue. So this episode is not about learning how to be blunt. It's about learning how to be deliberate. Let me take you back. I just moved home after a year working in India. I was exhausted, stretched way too thin and juggling far too many decisions about what was including marriage, house buying, car buying and jobs. I had three job offers on the table, two exciting new opportunities that felt expansive and energising, and one from my then boss, who knew exactly how to use loyalty, pressure and familiarity to make his offer the easy yes. And I said yes to his role, not because I really wanted it, but because I was overwhelmed and didn't trust myself to choose the unknown. And it was a role completely out of step with how I wanted to lead and how I work best. And it probably remains the biggest misstep of my career. And the greatest lesson, I didn't take the space I needed to think about it properly and to make a good decision.
[00:02:05] And I could have. I just didn't feel like I could in that moment. And that experience taught me that the most dangerous kind of yes is the one we give when we're disconnected from ourselves and we don't take the time and space to tune into what we want. And need. And so that's what we're diving into today. Both the big versions like that and the small everyday no's that sometimes sneak through as well.
[00:02:30] Why is it so hard to say no? Let's name the elephant in the room. For executive and high performing women, saying no isn't just a polite decline. It can feel like a rejection of what people expect from us. And the research backs that up. So according to Harvard Business Review articles, women are significantly more likely to be asked to do non promotable tasks, things that are helpful but invisible when it comes to promotion, pay rises and reputation. And here's the kicker. When women do say no, they're penalised and penalised more harshly than men. Men who decline these tasks are seen as focus. Women who decline them are often seen as uncooperative or difficult. Even worse, when men do say yes to these tasks, they're considered to be generous and going above and beyond women, they don't get that payback. They're just considered to be doing what they should. And it drives me insane.
[00:03:19] I want to swear so much right now. So can we just take a moment to appreciate that I'm not? However, my point is this. If you felt hesitant about saying no, it's not just in your head. The system really does treat us differently. But here's what I want you to hear.
[00:03:33] That doesn't mean that you can't change how you show up inside that system and say no and still get what you need. Let's talk about what saying yes costs you. Every time you say yes to something that doesn't align with your priorities, your goals or your values, you're saying no to something that does and that cost adds up. No time to prep properly for the board meeting because you said yes to proofreading someone else's slide deck. Sure didn't get to go for your run or eat lunch or call your partner back because you agreed to jump on a call that someone else could have handled. Great. These aren't actually minor inconveniences. When that's the norm and we do it over and over again, they're slow leaks in your leadership energy. And over time, they become the reason you're exhausted, resentful, or stuck.
[00:04:16] So let's reframe no. And here's something that I want to specifically reframe in saying no. Saying no doesn't mean being cold or rude or selfish. You can say no and still be kind. And you can say no and still be helpful. And you can say no and still be someone who values, connection and community. And this is really important to me. One of the things that underpins my leadership is abundant wholeheartedness. I believe that we should show up and be giving and civil and kind and generous in the world. And there's this narrative that being a people pleaser is always a bad thing. But doing favors and supporting others and being generous with your time, that's part of what holds workplaces and communities together. It's not the helping that's the problem. It's the pattern of helping at the expense of yourself, which then leads to you letting others down. The key isn't to stop being supportive. The key is to be strategic about what you say yes to and thoughtful in how you say no. That way your yes is grounded and your no is respectful without draining you in the process. Let's pause here and talk about the give or taker trap.
[00:05:24] Givers and takers exist in the world and in workplaces, and it shows up in leadership constantly. Adam Grant's research in Give and Take shows that that givers can be the most successful people in an organization, but they're also the most vulnerable to burnout and exploitation. Here's the danger if you're naturally a giver and you're surrounded by people who are takers, those who lean on you repeatedly without ever reciprocating you will eventually run dry. Takers don't set out to drain you, though. They just prioritise their needs and assume you'll always say yes. They're the hero in their story, which means that they're going to praise your generosity right up until you set a boundary, and then the tone is going to change. This is why your ability to say no kindly, clearly, and consistently is not just a skill, it's a protective strategy. It ensures your giving actually creates value instead of depletion. And it signals to takers that your time and energy are not infinite. The best leaders I know, they are generous and discerning. They give where it counts, and they say no when it doesn't. So what do you do instead? Let's talk strategy. Here are three practical ways to start saying no without burning bridges.
[00:06:32] The first technique is to buy time. When you're overwhelmed or surprised, your brain is in reactive mode. You're more likely to default to yes and just close that loop. But by buying time, you're activating the thinking part of your brain instead of the pleasing part. And there's neuroscience behind this. Pausing literally helps shift you into more strategic thinking. This is a fantastic technique. When someone catches you between meetings or completely off guard and ask you for something when you're not even thinking about what they're asking for. And it drives me freaking insane when people grab me when I'm running from one meeting to the next and say, oh, can I just ask. Ask you for a quick favor? And historically, I'm not going to lie, my default is yes, my default is get away from me. I'm running to another meeting. You can see I'm busy. Yes, yes, yes, whatever. And I don't mean that in a disrespectful way to them. It just means I'm not focused on what they're asking for. The problem is I'm not focused on what they're asking for and I'm saying yes to whatever it is and I'm then going to have to either deliver on that or go back and disapp them. And both of those are not helpful for either me or for them. And so what I learned through a couple of those instances was I needed to ask for space. And it's not that easy to say, hey, I need some space to think about that. What is easy, though, is saying, I'm on my way to another meeting. Can you shoot me an email with that request and I'll have a look when I can give it my attention. And the important thing here is that you do go back and close the loop. However, what I've also found is that people who are often looking to offload something quickly from their plate or they're not thinking for themselves and trying to push something onto you won't follow up. They actually go and think about these things for themselves and figure it out or find someone else who's more appropriate to pick it up rather than putting it on your plate. Because for them, if they are takers, sending that email seems like too much effort. And if it's a genuine need, they have no issue sending you the email and you can just bounce back to them when you've had time to think. And thinking is the important part here. When you get to that email, use the time you've had to go, is this a yes and is this a yes for a good reason? Or is it know? Having said that, this technique also works a treat when you're not in a rush. So if someone asks you for something, default to saying, let me think about it. I'll send you an email tomorrow and let you know my answer. Again, it buys you time to think. And this one came up for me recently. I had some house sitters come and stay and then they asked me a couple of weeks later, hey, we don't have any house sitting lined up for this period, would you mind if we come and stayed in your granny flat again? And I kind of defaulted to a yes because I was like, sure, be a good person. It's terrible getting accommodation at this time of year. And then I realized, actually, I don't want someone in my house. I don't know these people, I don't owe them anything. But if they had have been right there asking me 100%, I would have just said yes. And it is this space and this time that we have, we should use it and think about whether or not we want to say yes or no.
[00:09:25] The next technique I'm going to talk about is redirecting requests with intention. And we all know leadership isn't about doing it all yourself, it's about using your influence wisely. You want to be strategic about how you spend your time and. And you can say no and still add value by providing another contact, useful resource or sharing the responsibility equally with others. A senior leader I was coaching used to handle every last birthday celebration in her team while running a $50 million portfolio. And it chipped away at her time and wasn't adding the value that she was looking for in terms of her team, appreciating the effort she was putting in and recognizing that she really wanted them to be part of the team and was doing this for them. She wanted her team to see that she was one of them and cared about the team. But doing every birthday really didn't have the impact that she'd hoped for. And so instead she worked through a simple strategy to share the load with the team. So she would organise one birthday every year and everyone else in the team would organize one birthday every year. But she would check in on the organizer of each one to see if they needed anything so that it still demonstrated she cared about each and every birthday. But she wasn't picking up the workload. And it was a really powerful way to get both things happening rather than her having to do everything. And once she started redirecting with that warmth and that intentionality in her actions, not only did she get a time back, but other team members got to do something nice for others in the team and that became a real team activity where everyone was excited to organize someone's birthday party and started to make it a little bit competitive.
[00:10:51] This technique of redirecting intentionally also works equally as well when you're just not best placed to help. And it's A simple sentence. This is not something I can help with, but I know that so and so would be a great fit. Do you want me to connect you or I can't help with that right now and I have some great resources I can send you that might help. Those ways of saying no are actually still really helpful. And we overestimate how much people are going to resent us or be upset with us for saying no. If we respond with kindness and we respond in a way that's helpful, that's going to be their takeaway. And offering them someone else who might be more appropriate to help or a resource that's going to be helpful is the takeaway they're walking away with. Not that you said no.
[00:11:38] And the final technique I'll talk about today is to anchor in your priorities. Clarity is really contagious in the workplace. When you root your no in a bigger yes yes to your strategy, your team and your energy, it's easier for people to respect that boundary. It shows you're not rejecting them, but that you're actually standing for something else.
[00:11:56] Another one of my clients, a COO who kept getting pulled into quick input on other teams projects, her instinct was always to be helpful, but she came to me burnt out and struggling to make progress on our own deliverables and was feeling totally overwhelmed. And so we worked on anchoring her in her strategic role and her strategic no. And so instead of saying yes, I'll look at that for you now, she says, I'm currently focused on streamlining our Q3 operations, our end of year financial reporting, our whatever it is. If your request aligns with that, let's explore it. If not, I'm happy to connect you with someone who can help or we can look for a time when I'm not focused on this area. Not only did that clarify her value to the organization and reinforce her role, it made her team more self sufficient and her leadership more respected. She stepped into that really strategic space that people want to see from their coo.
[00:12:49] So try this. Thanks for thinking of me. I'm deep in delivery on insert priority. I'm not able to take this on right now, but my time is going to free up after X date and I'm happy for you to circle back then. This also works if it's your boss asking for something and this comes up a lot, right? We have our bosses come to us and say I need you to do this, I need you to do that, I need you to do the other and suddenly your plate is absolutely overflowing. With things that need to be because they're not looking at what's on your plate, they're looking at what's on their plate. When it's your boss asking for things, it can feel a lot harder to do that, but it's still really appropriate to say in response to can you pick this up? I can. I just want to be clear. I have XYZ as well as PQW on my plate right now. Appreciating that you're saying this is urgent. I can't take this on and still deliver all of my other commitments. Would you like me to reprioritise what I'm doing or can this task be delegated to someone else? Saying that means that you're being really clear about what's on your plate and what your priorities prioritising and gives your boss the opportunity to make the decision there. If their priorities are not XYZ and pqw, they can simply say that. But if they want something else in your plate, you need to be able to say something's got to give because there's only one of you and there's only ever going to be one of you and there's only so much work that you can do well. So you're giving them the gift of the opportunity to decide what matters to them. And these aren't just scripts, right? These are boundary signals that say, I know what I'm here to do and I protect the space to do it. Well, imagine how much more powerful that is then no.
[00:14:27] My last thought on this is when you're saying no, be kind, be helpful and be you. You don't have to be defensive or apologetic or over explain. You're not rejecting the person, you're protecting your capacity and you're protecting the outcomes that you're there to achieve. And that is not selfish, that is sm. And you're not here to keep everyone happy, you are here to lead. And so that starts by saying yes to what matters and no to what doesn't. Thanks for being here. And if this episode resonated with you, share it with someone who needs the reminder that no can be kind, clear and powerful. Until next time. Bye.
